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Another Infiltration Forum
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Snakeye
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 461 Location: Graz, Styria, Austria
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Posted: 2008-07-18 13:53:18 Post subject: |
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Kueltag wrote: | ..I think (and I read in old threads elsewhere) that bulk starts from the weight (1 bulk unit for 1/5th kg, my spreadsheet confirmed this), and than there is the "encouraging / discouraging" modification to the value... | I'd like to see a link to any such thread and would really like to know who actually said that. The explanation I got was back in the time where the guys who formed SentryStudios posted regularly. _________________ "Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing."
"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009 |
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Kueltag
Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Carpetsmoker
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 381 Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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Posted: 2008-07-18 15:21:26 Post subject: |
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Oh man ... I am so ashamed of my post there ... |
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Snakeye
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 461 Location: Graz, Styria, Austria
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Posted: 2008-07-18 17:14:43 Post subject: |
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Carpetsmoker wrote: | Oh man ... I am so ashamed of my post there ... |
Your posts here seemed reasonable so far.. wait you said there.. wait don't you have a tag on BuF.. And isn't it.. You mean YOU are.. What did you think when you chose THAT avatar?
Anyway, I stand by my opinion since the linked thread did neither contain a explanatory post from a developer nor an actually accurate description of how bulk is calculated or was intended by the developers. I still doubt the developers actually used some mathematic model..
Damn, whoever mentioned Steve Balmer today is responsible for the three instances of the word developer (four..) I used in the above.. _________________ "Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing."
"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009 |
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Carpetsmoker
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 381 Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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Posted: 2008-07-18 17:48:25 Post subject: |
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My old account (the one before Beretta_Abuser) is even worse, take this brilliant suggestion for example:
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=82647
"Rambo does" ... Oh my ... I was such an idiot ... Good think I grew up huh |
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Kueltag
Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: 2008-07-18 17:53:54 Post subject: |
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The question is what's the point in the bulk system? It slows you down, and does other similar effects. What does this to you in RL? Weight. But of course if a weapon is too bad (that is less frags per 1 life of the user) for it's weight, less people would use it. So it should be less bulky. And if another is too good for its weight (many frags per 1 life), it should be bulkier to prevent everybody from always using that weapon. This is how I think, and this is what I'm trying to create with CustomBulk.
The XLS file will soon be ready, it'll have other info in it as well, like all the bulks in the smallest possible chart (1 page), RL masses and mass/bulk data, protrudings (how far the end of the weapon is when you hold it aimed, good info for indoor fights), damage (against 3A, 2, body, Khelm, head, monsters), recoils, loadout quantity limits, and names in the loadouts. All this for EVERYTHING that is in the game. |
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Snakeye
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 461 Location: Graz, Styria, Austria
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Posted: 2008-07-18 18:11:01 Post subject: |
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[Master]Punisher wrote: | hmm, lots of ppl underestamete the power of a crossbow, it's just really cool and sneaky, and powerfull to, a arrow can go right through 2 or 3 ppl easyily |
Man I really love going through old posts - too bad I had the same account since I first signed up, so people can find out easier what bullshit I posted when I was young and dumb.. now I'm only dumb..
Quote: | The question is what's the point in the bulk system? It slows you down, and does other similar effects. What does this to you in RL? Weight. But of course if a weapon is too bad (that is less frags per 1 life of the user) for it's weight, less people would use it. So it should be less bulky. And if another is too good for its weight (many frags per 1 life), it should be bulkier to prevent everybody from always using that weapon. |
Weight is not the only thing that slows you down - size does also matter in this situation. Imagine going through a CQB environment with a 1kg heavy replica of a M82A1 - you'll have an easier time doing the same with a MP5 or a M4 or a SIG551 - all of which weight significantly above 1kg. While I'm not saying balance isn't a issue, I stand by my statement that bulk represents mainly weight AND size - just check which weapons with similar weights have less bulk. FAMAS? SIG551? M4? Hk416? All come close to a M16 in terms of weight, but they all have less bulk - and none of these is so much "worse" than a M16 to have a need to balance them.
PS:
When I need a new nick I'll know what to take.. _________________ "Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing."
"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009 |
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Kueltag
Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: 2008-07-18 19:17:28 Post subject: |
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Snakeye wrote: | Weight is not the only thing that slows you down - size does also matter in this situation. Imagine going through a CQB environment with a 1kg heavy replica of a M82A1 - you'll have an easier time doing the same with a MP5 or a M4 or a SIG551 - all of which weight significantly above 1kg. While I'm not saying balance isn't a issue, I stand by my statement that bulk represents mainly weight AND size - just check which weapons with similar weights have less bulk. FAMAS? SIG551? M4? Hk416? All come close to a M16 in terms of weight, but they all have less bulk - and none of these is so much "worse" than a M16 to have a need to balance them. |
I don't really get why size should modify bulk, there's weapon collision for that. The opposite example of yours: if you had a 20 kg piece of lead in your rucksack would its bulk be small just because it's small in size? No, it would slow you down as much as a 20 kg balloon. But indoors you would bump into the wall with the latter. Anyway, with MicroBulk and CustomBulk, you can make bulk mean whatever you want. |
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*Firebird*
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 245 Location: North-West-Germany
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Posted: 2008-07-19 02:50:04 Post subject: |
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Kueltag wrote: | The XLS file will soon be ready, it'll have other info in it as well, like all the bulks in the smallest possible chart (1 page), RL masses and mass/bulk data, protrudings (how far the end of the weapon is when you hold it aimed, good info for indoor fights), damage (against 3A, 2, body, Khelm, head, monsters), recoils, loadout quantity limits, and names in the loadouts. All this for EVERYTHING that is in the game. |
That sounds interesting! _________________
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Our team is well balanced. - We have problems everywhere. Tommy Prothro (since 1941) |
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Kueltag
Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: 2008-07-19 13:18:37 Post subject: |
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Started a new topic for the XLS file! |
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Carpetsmoker
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 381 Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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Posted: 2008-07-19 13:29:50 Post subject: |
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Where? I can't find it... |
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Kueltag
Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: 2008-07-19 14:22:13 Post subject: |
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Sorry, now it's there. |
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Stinkmarder [JgKdo]
Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 226 Location: Germany
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Posted: 2008-07-19 15:39:48 Post subject: |
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Attached file is compiled with a array size of 80. |
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Kueltag
Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: 2008-07-19 16:20:44 Post subject: |
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Ahhh... Thanks. |
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Snakeye
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 461 Location: Graz, Styria, Austria
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Posted: 2008-07-20 16:29:12 Post subject: |
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Kueltag wrote: | I don't really get why size should modify bulk, there's weapon collision for that. The opposite example of yours: if you had a 20 kg piece of lead in your rucksack would its bulk be small just because it's small in size? No, it would slow you down as much as a 20 kg balloon. But indoors you would bump into the wall with the latter. Anyway, with MicroBulk and CustomBulk, you can make bulk mean whatever you want. |
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I actually don't even want to know how large a 20kg ballon is, but if you carry one (no matter if in your hands or on your back) I'd like to see you running and moving as if you'd be carrying a 20kg lead piece. Try it once and tell me the results _________________ "Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing."
"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009 |
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