Another Infiltration Forum

[Psychomorph]

@Alo_08[JgKdo]:
Stinkmarder would make a "realism" setting on all servers, I suggest two setting that can be toggled to please all player-types and you are against that?


Another topic: It is possible to include more textures to a camo package, like a backpack with the appropriate camouflage, but would it be possible to code (a mut) that the backpack texture from the camo package is used for the backpack? That way the original "gear.utx" remains original (which fits the original Inf camos).

[Alo_08[JgKdo]]

[Stinkmarder]

[Snakeye]

Just a short question: why do you need a switchable realism/arcade bulk/loadout system? The old bulk system (weapons count, rest doesn't) or even microbulk doesn't stop you from going onto a server with a Rifleman loadout - i.e. M16A4, 210 rounds of 5.56x45s and a few nades. I thought it was fun in a reasonably sized group, but then I didn't have the chance to test the new bulk system when being alone on a server - and I trust Alo when he says it's unplayable when being alone.

And there are people who play alone at times; when I started COOP I quickly found, that when alone an AR with a 30rd mag will get you killed in certain situations (e.g. 4 Skaarj running your way); so I started using the Minimi and later the M60 when alone. But I don't like MGs so I gave the AKM&Drum a try. Finally I switched to my earlier mention loadout system (AR with 30rd mags and SMG as backup) and this keeps me alive when playing alone pretty well. As it seems now with the new bulk system I'd have to go back to the MG/Drum tactic, since if I understood it correctly: M249=26 bulk, which leaves 10 bulk for a M9+ammo and another 12 for Minimi ammo - does this really mean I can take 12 boxes??? I must have gotten it wrong - that would equal 2400 rounds of ammo..

Point is, when you enjoy realism you don't need a restriction to play in a realistic way - unless the knowledge you could haul around a M60 and 99 ammo boxes for it somehow is disturbing your game. We already can have realistic sized loadouts, why add a restriction that forces players, who enjoy COOP in a different way, to play a way which they don't think is fun? As long as the "two groups" stay on a separate server when players from both are present I don't see any problem with "both groups" having COOP fun in their own way. And as I might have mentioned on another thread: if there's a realism session going on and an "arcader" joins and spoils your game, tell him to behave and if he doesn't kick his ass from the server - after all the admin IS a realism player, so he'd probably understand.
_________________
"Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing."

"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009

[Alo_08[JgKdo]]

[Carpetsmoker]

If you use a light rifle ("carbine") like the M4, FAMAS, HK416 etc. you can carry 16 mags and still have full stamina ... I usually carry only 11 btw.

[Chuckus]

@ snakeye

Well the truth is by having 16 mags, it meant that one man could simply empty half a mag at the skarrj without penalty. While this is a useful way to get through the maps, it's not the point of coop.

That's why people sprint past the group and engage skarrj one on one until they get mauled.

the point of coop is to move as a team and conservation of ammo was (in the beginning at least) a real and important concern when considering attacks and tactics. Mag sharing and using single fire was a must rather than a rare circumstance.

The point of the restrictions is to bring this part of the game back into effect and also to discourage "soloing" as much as possible.

When I want to play solo, I just boot single player maps in offline infiltration. The coop servers are there for group play. Besides, If you're soloing, you will eventually die anyway and respawn with full ammo.

[Snakeye]

Chuckus, I think I fully understand what these changes are supposed to do - and for my part I think it's a good idea, with two exceptions.

One is solo play. I don't actually WANT to play alone. If I would want to play a solo game there's a few I'd rather play than Inf with Uneal maps. But sometimes I spend quite a while on a server alone until someone joins - hell, I had days where I played alone for 1 hour or more until I decided the probability of someone showing up until I go to sleep is low enough. And the problem with playing solo is NOT that I will run out of ammo at all, it's running out of ammo in the current mag and having to reload while Skaarj are going in for the kill - the only way to survive this is to switch to a secondary weapon with enough power to down 1 or 2 Skaarj in sufficiently short time, and a M9 is not up to this job. And even of you run out of ammo at all, I think it's one hell of a bad way to die; I got wasted by Skaarj because I did something stupid, because I wrongly assessed a situation and because I wasn't quick enough to switch weapons when dry or switched to the wrong weapon - I can live with that, it's my fault, but just dieing because I can't fght back anymore seems just plain wrong; yes I'm no expert marksman and I tend to miss running Skaarj a tad too often - but I generally try to do short bursts or semi and to conserve ammo as good as possible; now to we really have to punish bad marksmanship?

Exception number two is, that some people don't want to play COOP as a tactical group, they want to run around on full auto and waste Skaarj - it's their way of having fun in COOP and as long as they DON'T INTERFERE with a tactical group playing on a server I'd say let them have fun their way - no matter what Inf COOP is intended to be; after all I doubt Infiltration 2.9 was intended to be played against monsters, yet that's exactly what we do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having realistic loadouts, I like playing in a tactical group - I just think there is a part of the COOP community who doesn't want to and I suppose they will most probably rather stop playing because they don't have fun anymore than adapt to tactical gameplay. Do we really wan't to reduce an already small community because a part of it doesn't play like it was supposed to?

I guess my main problem is, that I can adapt to both types of gameplay - I don't mind playing in a group with rather relaxed ammo usage and I also like to move around with a group as team; having the first quitting the game for me means I will have less people to play with on the servers and this effectively means less Inf COOP, which I would truly find sad since I think it has a great community. So I personally would ask to at least follow Psychomorphs suggestion to make the settings selectable, so that a person playing alone or a group of "arcaders" can chose to play the way they like.
_________________
"Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing."

"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009

[Alo_08[JgKdo]]

[Ente]

I agree with Snakeeye...

[Biene_Maja]

I agree too!

I like to play tactical and if I had a bad day I want to kill monsters and nothing else.

I see that one problem is that there are different definitions of teamplay or tactics. That's okay. I never joined a tactical game when Carpet quit because I joined! For me that's "Kindergarten"! This small community seems to have a lag of communication. I see that some mistakes are mine p. e. my english is not good enough to understand a lot of things posted and I don't want to spend time to translate it. (And in-game it's not really possible!)

But every problem could be solved with more communication. I would prefer a communication about teamspeak or so with a translator.

Another possible solution: One server is tactical, perhaps with a little "t" in the servername and the other runs with the old settings. And the tactic-server and the fun-server switches in a rhythm from coop1 to coop2.
And a new solution: we make a third server which is not owned by Stinkmarder with fun-settings...
But I don't want to split the community!!! Think what is happend before Inf 2.9 with vanilla, rav1 and ra2. And there were more players then today.

Could we now shake hands and play with fun alltogether???

[Crazy_Karnickel]

[Psychomorph]

Inf-co-op was never meant as an arcade game, the only reason why the zero-bulk option was introduced is to counter the actually unrealistic Inf bulk system.
I like the current bulk but disagree with it on the other hand, this setting is in developement and in my opinion still needs fixing and it will be fixed I hope.

Interessting is also, that I noticed how realism players are walking most of the time, so if you have little stamina it is less of a problem with gameplay like this. I also find that the slower movement feels somewhat of more realistic.

[Psychomorph]

As for the parts where you need full stamina to jump over stuff, I addressed this problem to Stinkmarder with the suggestion of a "charging stamina" feature, that would allow you to charge stamina to full for a short moment which would allow you to jump over stuff even with low stamina and health.
This feature is essencial, because many map-parts will be unplayable with the current bulk setting.

Sometimes after battle or zero stamina you can not jump, Toad's mutator TrueScale has a climbing feature, so if you can't jump, you can still climb (using the same jump key), maybe you guys can extract the code from it and have it as a separate climbing mutator (with credits to the original coder of course)?
I would like to be able to climb on things that are even beyond the jumping height, imagine how usefull that woulkd be.
If I remember correctly True Scale has a very low forward directed leap (realistic), while the heights are beaten with the climb, that is exactly how I want it and dammit, this is allready there, just extract the code form the original mutator with credits and use it dammit.

I remember playing the one aztec map of RYS offline with True Scale, I was climbing up the gradate pyramids by climbing, using up less stamina compared to jump.

[Biene_Maja]

The idea with the climbing mut is good.

I have a question: I think I could play in the tactical way you like if you say to me how. Why do you think I couldn't play in a "realism" way???