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INF Coop Tactics
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Stinkmarder
[JgKdo]


Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Germany

PostPosted: 2008-03-11 15:08:42    Post subject: INF Coop Tactics Reply with quote

Work in progress! This is just a first draft to get this thing started. Suggestions are most welcome.

---

1.) Choose a role in your squad and select a appropriate loadout.

- Best squad size is 4 to 5 players. Depending on map size the remaining players can form a second squad or simply serve as a reserve, following the first squad.

- A squad should consist of at least three riflemen and one machine gunner.

- At least one squad member should be equipped with a 40mm grenade launcher.

- Optionally one squad member equipped with a high caliber (.50 BMG) sniper rifle


2.) Stay with your squad and work as a team

- If you are in front, wait for other squad members to catch up.

- As a machine gunner, try to move in a (preferable well covered) supporting position from where you can cover the rest of the squad while it moves forward.


3.) Tell other squad members what you are doing

- Aiming your weapon means you possibly want to fire it.

- Reports contacts immediately. If known, with direction and number and type of target(s). Directions are given in compass directions (N, NW, W, SW, etc.) or relative to the current walking direction (left, right, ahead, back, 12 o'clock, 9 o'clock, etc.)
There are some abbreviations for common monster types:
kr: Krall
sk: Skaarj
tr: Skaarj Trooper
br: Brute
sl: Slith
gb: Gasbag


- Announce when you leave a supporting position.


4.) Pay attention to what other squad members do

- Don't cross the line of fire of another squad member who is aiming his/her weapon

- Read what other squad members say.


5.) CQB: Movement

Think of driving a car on a highway. You don't change lanes without turning your head first. Same holds true for CQB for two reasons:
a) There is a great risk of friendly fire when stepping into the line of fire of an other squad member
b) To engage suddenly appearing targets it is preferable to have the combined fire power from at lest two squad members available at all the time.

Pick a 'lane' (left or right) and don't leave it without looking back. This is particularly important when taking turns.

- When you stop to engage a target, make sure there is space for other squad members to walk behind you so they don't have to cross your line of fire. Otherwise you might be blocking the whole squad from engaging the target as well.

- Never stop at choke points where you would block other squad members. Often it is more feasible to rush forward or fall back with the whole squad to where more space is available.


5.) CQB: Entering rooms

- If needed, throw in handgrenades first. Cover grenade throwing squad members in case of enemy rushing out of the room. Enter the room immediately after the last grenade exploded. If you wait too long, new enemy forces may have arrived.

- When passing the doorway enemy fire is concentrated on this point. It is therefore important to clear the doorway as quick as possible. Never ever stop in the doorway.

- Immediately after passing the doorway turn 90 degrees left or right and move away from the door while engaging targets on the move.

- Move along the walls of the room to the 'points of domination' (mainly the corners of the room).

[an animated GIF would be helpful here]


6.) Deal with the stupid monsters-can-see-through-doors bug

TODO
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-03-11 17:20:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same with nicer formatting.

--

Work in progress! This is just a first draft to get this thing started. Suggestions are most welcome.

---

Choose a role in your squad and select a appropriate loadout.

  • The best squad size is 4 to 5 players. Depending on map size the remaining
    players can form a second squad or simply serve as a reserve, following the
    first squad.

  • A squad should consist of at least three riflemen and one machine gunner.

  • At least one squad member should be equipped with a 40mm grenade launcher.

  • Optionally one squad member equipped with a high caliber (.50 BMG) sniper rifle


Stay with your squad and work as a team

  • If you are in front, wait for other squad members to catch up.

  • As a machine gunner, try to move in a (preferable well covered)
    supporting position from where you can cover the rest of the squad while it
    moves forward.


Tell other squad members what you are doing

  • Aiming your weapon means you possibly want to fire it.

  • Reports contacts immediately. If known, with direction and number and
    type of target(s). Directions are given in compass directions (N, NW, W, SW,
    etc.) or relative to the current walking direction (left, right, ahead, back,
    12 o'clock, 9 o'clock, etc.) There are some abbreviations for common monster
    types:
    kr: Krall
    sk: Skaarj
    tr: Skaarj Trooper
    br: Brute
    sl: Slith
    gb: Gasbag

  • Reporting contacts once is enough, don't spam 10 contact messages.

  • Announce when you leave a supporting position.


Pay attention to what other squad members do

  • Don't cross the line of fire of another squad member who is aiming his/her
    weapon.

  • Read what other squad members say.



CQB: Movement


  • Think of driving a car on a highway. You don't change lanes without turning
    your head first. Same holds true for CQB for two reasons:
    a) There is a great risk of friendly fire when stepping into the line of fire
    of an other squad member.
    b) To engage suddenly appearing targets it is preferable to have the combined
    fire power from at lest two squad members available at all the time.

  • Pick a 'lane' (left or right) and don't leave it without looking back.
    This is particularly important when taking turns.

  • When you stop to engage a target, make sure there is space for other squad
    members to walk behind you so they don't have to cross your line of fire.
    Otherwise you might be blocking the whole squad from engaging the target as
    well.

  • Never stop at choke points where you would block other squad members.
    Often it is more feasible to rush forward or fall back with the whole squad to
    where more space is available.


CQB: Entering rooms

  • If needed, throw in frag grenades first. Cover grenade throwing squad
    members in case of enemy rushing out of the room. Enter the room immediately
    after the last grenade exploded. If you wait too long, new enemy forces may
    have arrived.

  • When passing the doorway enemy fire is concentrated on this point. It is
    therefore important to clear the doorway as quick as possible. Never ever stop
    in the doorway.

  • Immediately after passing the doorway turn 90 degrees left or right and
    move away from the door while engaging targets on the move.

  • Move along the walls of the room to the 'points of domination' (mainly the
    corners of the room).


[an animated GIF would be helpful here]


Deal with the stupid monsters-can-see-through-doors bug

TODO
[/list]
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-03-11 19:15:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work so far Smile

Just a few remarks from my limited light-tactical point of view.

To point 3 I'd really like to add that TeamSpeak should become more widely used on COOP. FOOL has a free Teamspeak server with a COOP channel (and a seldom used Inf channel Smile). You're always faster saying something instead of typing something. Even if you don't actually have a headset, listening to what your teammates say on TS might be useful - if we get people to use TS more for tactical purpose and not for conversations about what they had for dinner Mr. Green

Also I suppose directions should NOT be given in a relational way (i.e. 12 o'clock) but always in an absolute way (i.e. N), since some teammembers might be facing in another direction and/or not be (sufficiently) aware of yours. For "written" conversation Reportdirection (I suppose most already use this) is best used to initially report a contact and its direction - numbers and details should only be given of the hostiles have not detected the team.

One point I'm missing a bit (perhaps it doesn't show up in hardcore tactical play?) is the evasion of Krall/Skaarj low velocity fire; I've often had situations, where there's a choice between getting hit by Krall/Skaarj projectiles or strafe out of their flightpath - sometimes without having sufficient time to look back if no one is about to open fire. What's the tactical corrct way to deal with this? Die?
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zeep



Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 48

PostPosted: 2008-03-11 19:44:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to:
5.) CQB: Entering rooms
- When entering a room first try to approximate the size of it to determine how many persons are needed to clear it. A preset maximum can be 4 persons. In this stage you also decide if it's needed to enter the room or not.(*)

Action entering: 2 soldiers are standing on each side of the door / entry. One opens the door -on command- and the other goes in first and crosses to the other side. Inside he will 'clear' his part of the room, this can be 1/2 or 1/4th. The other person then moves inside and also crosses to the other side, securing his side. If the room is bigger and still not entirely cleared, more soldiers move in behind them while the first ones move deeper into the room.
(*) In-game we can use these room definitions: "Normal (Room)", for 2 persons and "Big (Room)" for more than 2. Entering into a room requires fast moving. The first one entering clears his side and immediately the second one in clears his side. This must be done quick or the first one in can die of there's an enemy in his blind spot.



*edit* corrections
Nice thread.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-03-12 01:49:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeep, we actually did exactly this CQB room clearing with Stinkmarder on the chinese like RYS maps some time ago.
That actually works realistic if not facing to many hostiles, the key is to be so accurate and lightning fast, that you neutralize everything before you can get hit.
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*Firebird*



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 245
Location: North-West-Germany

PostPosted: 2008-03-12 02:16:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snakeye wrote:
I suppose directions should NOT be given in a relational way (i.e. 12 o'clock) but always in an absolute way (i.e. N), since some teammembers might be facing in another direction and/or not be (sufficiently) aware of yours.

I think most time the absolute way (i.e.N) might be more helpful, especially when it is an outside map. But you should have an eye to the situation. Often inside there is not much choice, for example if there are only two ways to go, and I think it is faster than to use the relational way (like left, right, up etc), because you donīt have to check your compass first.
But please do not use the clock-proposal Exclamation It would take hours until I found the right direction on an imaginal clock and at last I still wouldnīt know if it should be a horizontal or a vertical one, cause some hostiles are in upper positions. Mr. Green

What is the abbreviation for Rocket (Troopers)?
And how to differentiate Mercs and Brutes, Skaarj and Skaarj Troopers and Rocket and Rocket Trooper? I know it is something in their weapons, but how to identify what is what?
(For not disturbing this thread its maybe better to answer the question for how to differentiate the enemys in the OffTopic tread "Dare to ask")

Snakeye wrote:
the evasion of Krall/Skaarj low velocity fire; I've often had situations, where there's a choice between getting hit by Krall/Skaarj projectiles or strafe out of their flightpath - sometimes without having sufficient time to look back if no one is about to open fire. What's the tactical corrct way to deal with this?

I have thought about that too and often in such situations superfluously weapon runs dry. I found out that most time monsters aim at the high of your breast. So if you lay down than 2-3 shoots of them (I tested it with Krall) will not hit you. That should be time enough for teammates to eliminate the attacker. Furthermore if you lay down and tell that your weapon is dry, teammates have continuing free Lof and the option to simply cross over you, if it would be really necessary and no other way to protect your life.
Remains just the question if that behaviour is accepted or not?
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All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Our team is well balanced. - We have problems everywhere. Tommy Prothro (since 1941)
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-03-12 11:15:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reloading, Ammunition & Fireing Discipline
  • Reload if at least one team member is securing the area.

  • Control how much you fire, wasting to much ammunition forces you to reload, mostly as a whole team in the wrong moment. Be sure your team can always fight back at any time.

  • Reload in an optimal position (behind cover, behind your team members), but sometimes on the run, too.

  • Try getting used to switch to a sidegun if dry in combat.

  • Maintain a lot of fireing discipline, basically that means use your brain; if you know friendlies might be in a room, don't lay grenade fire onto it, if you see a team member in front of you is about to cross your line, hold fire, or notify him, if possible adapt and change your position to get a free line of fire.

  • Use defined force; If you deal with a single weak hostile, you can be sure the front man will get it, no need to waste ammunition. Usually let the front people do the job, interfere only if the front team members have problems to neutralize the target quickly, or if you can clearly see the target is of much power. If everybody tries to get the target, that usually ends in team kills.

  • If the front team members get dry, they move to the sides and back, or kneel/lay down, while the team members behind them start fireing, that way the team will always be able to fire back.

  • Do not forget to perform a tactical reload, trying to empty each magazine precisely can be contra productive, better equip yourself with more magazines to guarantee a usable weapon at any time, but avoid reloading every few shots, that will only slowly deplete your ammunition.
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zeep



Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 48

PostPosted: 2008-03-12 17:57:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we can choose a specific map for training? I don't know many of them so i will let the choosing up to a connaiseur. A CQB map where we can practise the routines described here.

For non CQB we will choose different maps.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-03-26 22:30:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the japan inspired maps in RYS is pretty fun to practise CQB tactics Zeep, even on Skaarj (don't remember the name).


I had an idea regarding teams a while ago. The INF score board has two team, but we use only one, what if we could switch to two teams (the standart INF way via menue).
Advantage of that system is, that you could split teams and have a quick view into your squad specifically (to check health) without to search your team members in one big list. Also if you have 12 people on one server some players can't be seen in the list, the two team list would solve that issue (joiners would be transferred into the empty team).
Changing teams does it automatically (by list), no round restart needed logically, there is no physical team change, just the updated score board.


Regarding limitted respawn; could be a problem. Some while ago, on the Blackfoot Forums I suggested a co-op reinsertion system, where you respawn with your last state of gear and health (Used up 5 mags previously? These are gone then at respawn).
Of course something like this wouldn't work on the large scale in INF co-op, maybe it could be used if you die to often, playing for 5 minutes would allow you to respawn with full gear and health.
But there is the reconnect thing, so... just typing down ideas.
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*Firebird*



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 245
Location: North-West-Germany

PostPosted: 2008-03-26 23:30:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:
...switch to two teams (the standart INF way via menue).
Advantage of that system is, that you could split teams and have a quick view into your squad specifically (to check health) without to search your team members in one big list. Also if you have 12 people on one server some players can't be seen in the list, the two team list would solve that issue (joiners would be transferred into the empty team).
Changing teams does it automatically (by list), no round restart needed logically, there is no physical team change, just the updated score board.

I think that would not work without causing problems or you have to change some adjustments for announcements too. At the moment teamchange in TDM for example changes hudcolors too. For me it would be confusing, if hudcolor suddenly changes automatically. But the main problem is, that you need to press different buttons to Say or Teamsay if you are listed in different teams. And most of short keybinds like "hostile direction report" or "Acknowledge" only your own Team gets. So if you are automatically switched in another list, it could happen that you maybe talk only to your own than. Wink Btw without Adminpower only 10 Players are allowed to join at one Coop-Server.
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All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Our team is well balanced. - We have problems everywhere. Tommy Prothro (since 1941)
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-03-28 16:35:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't really think about it so complicated, just score board teams.
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Alo_08[JgKdo]
INFanterist


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Coop

PostPosted: 2008-04-27 18:27:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:

[*]Try getting used to switch to a sidegun if dry in combat.

[*] better equip yourself with more magazines to guarantee a usable weapon at any time,


Last week that was still possible... Wink
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Stinkmarder
[JgKdo]


Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Germany

PostPosted: 2008-04-27 18:31:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alo_08[JgKdo] wrote:
Psychomorph wrote:

[*]Try getting used to switch to a sidegun if dry in combat.

[*] better equip yourself with more magazines to guarantee a usable weapon at any time,


Last week that was still possible... Wink

Now that's polemic.

It is still possible to carry a backup weapon with a reasonable amount of ammo and you can still carry more ammo compared to usual INF rules.
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Stinkmarder
[JgKdo]


Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Germany

PostPosted: 2008-04-27 19:01:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

back on topic...

Regarding coordination/communication:

Communication doesn't need words. Most communication in a tactical game is non-verbal. You don't need TeamSpeak (it can be a benefit, of course, but also a distraction), you don't even need much team chat communication.

It's about turning your head when you are up front to see what your mates are doing. Are they following? Do I need to wait for them to catch up? Are they ready or distracted? Do they cover me or am I on my own? Am I in their line of fire? ...
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Alo_08[JgKdo]
INFanterist


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Coop

PostPosted: 2008-04-27 20:27:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stinkmarder wrote:

It is still possible to carry a backup weapon with a reasonable amount of ammo


for ex.
main:
hk416 14
m203 4
cco 4
10 mags 10
10 nades 10

backup:
m1s90 18
light 1
6 mags 6

sidearm:
mk23 6
lam 3
3 mags 3

4 m67 4

total: 83

so u cant....

a bit too much for some jumps and for some ways...
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