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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-01 16:57:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:
Carpetsmoker's M4 fix is really great, but it is not in the final stage because of some glitches that seem to be related to the backup sight thing. If you could get the permission to work on it and fix that little problem, I don't see why this mutator should not be used online then.
It would be a shame if such potential for fixage is not used.


AFAIK the only real problem with this one is the mentioned backup iron sight problem (the transparent area appears pink for most(?) of us). Since I didn't do textures/models until now I'm probably not able to solve this by making the texture/model transparent - whichever of the two actually causes the problem. The thing I COULD do (but I guess Carpet could do it even faster) is to make the backup iron sight view either "high ready" (as for M14 and M82) or make the part of the backup irons above the aiming "hole" the actual aiming point. I did play around with the aiming point a but on the weekend, and while both possibilites are doable, neither struck me as good sollution, since it looks a tad stupid to aim high read or above the irons when you have the iron sights visible in the texure (although not transparent).

The part that actually made me wonder the most was, that while studying the M4A1fix mutator I found out that you get extra kick for using a scope in Inf - I tried the difference between the fixed M4A1 and my RO979 (using the original values) and I guess I finally found out, why I never use scopes in Inf. Removing that extra kick actually makes the ACOG a viable aiming option - otherwise I was much quicker reaquiring targets with irons than with the ACOG (I still am, but not by much anymore). I wonder where this desing decision came from - probably the Inf team wanted to make sniping not too easy and ended up nerfing it into oblivion - I still have the highest respect for anyone actually able to use the M14 and M82 in game. I guess that feature will make it into the next version of my RO979..
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spm1138



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 49

PostPosted: 2008-06-01 19:16:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare the ACOG on the M4A1 to the other weapons though.

The M16's have almost no kick.

The M16A4 is notably kick free and accurate (it's why it's so popular in PVP).

It's just a "feature" on the M4A1.
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-01 19:57:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

spm1138 wrote:
Compare the ACOG on the M4A1 to the other weapons though.

The M16's have almost no kick.

The M16A4 is notably kick free and accurate (it's why it's so popular in PVP).

It's just a "feature" on the M4A1.


Not sure if you meant the strong kick in general or the scope multiplier, since the latter is present in all weapons which can take ACOGs (M16A2, SIG551, FAMAS) and has the same ammount as the M4A1.

The recoil itself is very similar in the ARs too. Basekick and Sidekick are identical in M16A2, M16A4, SIG551, FAMAS and Hk416 - the weapons only differ in kickmultiplier, which is smaller in the M16A2 and M16A4, and a larger for SIG551, FAMAS and Hk416. The M4A1 on the other hand has the kickmutliplier of the SIG551 but a significantly increased Basekick and Sidekick - it seems to be either intentional or an oversight - anyway it's definitely not balanced thowards real weapon behavior when compared to the rest of the ARs.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 392
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-01 21:02:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carpetsmoker minimized the recoil using the scope which I like, because I hate Inf's bouncing scopes and in INF co-op they are rather contra productive.
I also suggested to use the tip of the rear sight to align with the frontsight (a cheap solution, but still a solution), or if nothing helps using the highready (There is almost nothing more I hate than using a rifle hipped in CQB, that is a no-go).

However, problem is that Carpetsmoker simply does not release a fixed version, I am sure he has his reasons, but since you (Snakeye) are willing to do this stuff I suggested you to ask for permission to finish this mutator.

The problem I have with the M4 fix is more than just the non transparent rear sight, it adds a M203 to the M4 (and there is no 3rd person texture for it), even if I have no M203 selected and it has both dry, so I have to reload the rifle and the gl before I can use them. Another issue is that the M4 fix uses own ACOG texture (logically), which has the original colour and keeps it if I use my modified M4 texture. Seems to me it needs a fix.


As for the backup sight, we decided to get the M4 model and add a rear aperture to it, however I had massive problems with my 3D program that I solved allready, but the stuff Geogob gave me is an older build which has many missing files, so I am sitting here like an idiot waiting for geo's respond with the hope he can give me the full stuff. As usual, whenever I do something for INF, it depends on other people, I hate that.
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 381
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-06-01 21:08:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, problem is that Carpetsmoker simply does not release a fixed version, I am sure he has his reasons, but since you (Snakeye) are willing to do this stuff I suggested you to ask for permission to finish this mutator.


If he sends me an email I will send him what I have (carpetsmoker@xs4all.nl)
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-02 06:27:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:
Carpetsmoker minimized the recoil using the scope which I like, because I hate Inf's bouncing scopes and in INF co-op they are rather contra productive.
I also suggested to use the tip of the rear sight to align with the frontsight (a cheap solution, but still a solution), or if nothing helps using the highready (There is almost nothing more I hate than using a rifle hipped in CQB, that is a no-go).

As I mentioned before using the tip of the rear sight is no real problem - I already have a found an aimposition that does this (and I was bright enough to write down the values before I did further experimentation). It is somewhat unelegant, but might be the best option for a first try.

Psychomorph wrote:
The problem I have with the M4 fix is more than just the non transparent rear sight, it adds a M203 to the M4 (and there is no 3rd person texture for it), even if I have no M203 selected and it has both dry, so I have to reload the rifle and the gl before I can use them. Another issue is that the M4 fix uses own ACOG texture (logically), which has the original colour and keeps it if I use my modified M4 texture. Seems to me it needs a fix.

Hmm, wasn't aware of those - guess I'll have to make some more thoroug testing before starting any change work. I hope I'll get to do some today after work to see if I can reproduce those errors. The changed texture thing is something I probably can't reproduce, since I don't have the changed one - also using changed textures should be kinda impossible online? Do you replace it with an own mutator or replace the M4 texture in the u-file?

Carpetsmoker wrote:
If he sends me an email I will send him what I have (carpetsmoker@xs4all.nl)

Well, for the first try I guess I already have what I need, after all extracting all the scripts from UEd is one of the first things I learned - I'm also able to compile the M4A1fix stuff into a running mutator. I'll send you an email this evening regardless, so I have the complete stuff. Also a list with the known bugs (if such a thing exists) would be nice - doesn't have to be too detailed, just a few words how to produce the error should be sufficient.

As usual I can't make any promises except, that I'll take a look at it and try to fix what I can fix with my limited possibilities.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 392
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-02 15:30:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snakeye wrote:
As I mentioned before using the tip of the rear sight is no real problem - I already have a found an aimposition that does this (and I was bright enough to write down the values before I did further experimentation). It is somewhat unelegant, but might be the best option for a first try.

That's good news. For those who do not like it unelegant, maybe you can change the position to highready in the .ini, so that people who do not like aiming the unelegant backup sights, could adjust it to highready instead? Just an idea to think about.

Snakeye wrote:
The changed texture thing is something I probably can't reproduce, since I don't have the changed one - also using changed textures should be kinda impossible online? Do you replace it with an own mutator or replace the M4 texture in the u-file?

If you do not want that transparent aperture on the rear sight, which is why the M4 fix uses an own ACOG texture (to get that pink spot on it, which should be transparent, sadly it is not for everybody), than you don't need an ACOG texture in the fix and there must not be any problems regarding this any longer.
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-02 18:03:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:
That's good news. For those who do not like it unelegant, maybe you can change the position to highready in the .ini, so that people who do not like aiming the unelegant backup sights, could adjust it to highready instead? Just an idea to think about.

I already thought about making an Ini-File option for my RO979 to have the client select which fire-mode to start in - I set it to semi and my Beta Tester prompty said he doesn't like changing to burst all the time Smile. Must investigate a bit further if this is possible or not (dunno if ini files are taken from server or client..)

Psychomorph wrote:
If you do not want that transparent aperture on the rear sight, which is why the M4 fix uses an own ACOG texture (to get that pink spot on it, which should be transparent, sadly it is not for everybody), than you don't need an ACOG texture in the fix and there must not be any problems regarding this any longer.

Technically I would really like to have the transparent rear sight, but making one is far beyond my scope at the moment. Perhaps we should investigate further for whom it works and why only for them.

Also on some more optimistic topic I was able to closer examine Carpets M4 mutator and found the following problems on my system:
- Choosing a Plain M4A1 results in getting a M4A1 with ACOG.
- Choosing a M4A1 with reflex results in getting a M4A1 with reflex and M203.
- Choosing a M4A1 with reflex and supressor results in getting a M4A1 with reflex, supressor and M203.

All of the above show the correct model on my system - and to make things even better I already found out why it does this and already have a fix that works plus a fix that's not even half as ugly as the first one and should work (not yet tested).

Could anyone confirm these are the configurations that cause problems - or tell me which other configurations cause problems. (best if you also post the loadout string of the loadout that causes problems btw.)

The fourth little thing I found, not really a bug but rather a unpleasent part, is, that pressing the firemode key while aiming over the backup irons with a M4A1&ACOG&M203 doesn't switch grenade types, whereas while aiming the ACOG it does; not really a problem but could be fixed if I find a way.
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 381
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-06-02 18:31:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also on some more optimistic topic I was able to closer examine Carpets M4 mutator and found the following problems on my system:
- Choosing a Plain M4A1 results in getting a M4A1 with ACOG.
- Choosing a M4A1 with reflex results in getting a M4A1 with reflex and M203.
- Choosing a M4A1 with reflex and supressor results in getting a M4A1 with reflex, supressor and M203.


I already fixed this, or maybe I didn't fix it and I just know (knew) how to fix it ... Not sure anymore ...

I'll look over it, I see I got your email, I'll reply later, I just got home...

[edit] ugh, I need to read I see you already fixed it, good.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 392
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-05 00:37:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do military boots really do such a loud and clean noise like a step-shoe?

Maybe we should change this? I can try to make a sound, but I want to know if it is worth doing, if it can be actually changed ingame.
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 381
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-06-05 10:47:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do military boots really do such a loud and clean noise like a step-shoe?


I know for a fact that Dutch ones don't.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 392
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-05 12:48:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the thing, because I think no military boots do this.
SWAT use extra silent boots for obvious reasons, but I think military is not that far away from that.

I will make a sound and then I will see if this can be made into the game somehow.

Does someone know where the foot step sound is located?
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-05 16:54:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that footstep sound something "cosmetic" or does the sound actually have influence on how good Skaarj etc. can detect you?
(don't get the question wrong - even if it's cosmetic I'm all in favor of replacing it by a realistic one Mr. Green)
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 392
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-05 21:25:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long time ago (I think the old BU forums) I suggested that footsteps could attract the AI's awareness, but that have yet to be made, so no, it would be just cosmetic at that point.
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*Firebird*



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 245
Location: North-West-Germany

PostPosted: 2008-06-06 09:21:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Dtas etc. the footstep sound would not be just "cosmetic". So I suggest to make your work public then. Smile
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