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Mutator: INFCustomBulk
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 13:53:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kueltag wrote:
..I think (and I read in old threads elsewhere) that bulk starts from the weight (1 bulk unit for 1/5th kg, my spreadsheet confirmed this), and than there is the "encouraging / discouraging" modification to the value...
I'd like to see a link to any such thread and would really like to know who actually said that. The explanation I got was back in the time where the guys who formed SentryStudios posted regularly.
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Kueltag



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 15:15:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=110312
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 15:21:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man ... I am so ashamed of my post there ...
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 17:14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carpetsmoker wrote:
Oh man ... I am so ashamed of my post there ...

Your posts here seemed reasonable so far.. wait you said there.. wait don't you have a tag on BuF.. And isn't it.. You mean YOU are.. What did you think when you chose THAT avatar?

Anyway, I stand by my opinion since the linked thread did neither contain a explanatory post from a developer nor an actually accurate description of how bulk is calculated or was intended by the developers. I still doubt the developers actually used some mathematic model..

Damn, whoever mentioned Steve Balmer today is responsible for the three instances of the word developer (four..) I used in the above..
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"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 17:48:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

My old account (the one before Beretta_Abuser) is even worse, take this brilliant suggestion for example:
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=82647

"Rambo does" ... Oh my ... I was such an idiot ... Good think I grew up huh Wink
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Kueltag



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 17:53:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is what's the point in the bulk system? It slows you down, and does other similar effects. What does this to you in RL? Weight. But of course if a weapon is too bad (that is less frags per 1 life of the user) for it's weight, less people would use it. So it should be less bulky. And if another is too good for its weight (many frags per 1 life), it should be bulkier to prevent everybody from always using that weapon. This is how I think, and this is what I'm trying to create with CustomBulk.

The XLS file will soon be ready, it'll have other info in it as well, like all the bulks in the smallest possible chart (1 page), RL masses and mass/bulk data, protrudings (how far the end of the weapon is when you hold it aimed, good info for indoor fights), damage (against 3A, 2, body, Khelm, head, monsters), recoils, loadout quantity limits, and names in the loadouts. All this for EVERYTHING that is in the game.
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 18:11:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Master]Punisher wrote:
hmm, lots of ppl underestamete the power of a crossbow, it's just really cool and sneaky, and powerfull to, a arrow can go right through 2 or 3 ppl easyily

Laughing Laughing Laughing

Man I really love going through old posts - too bad I had the same account since I first signed up, so people can find out easier what bullshit I posted when I was young and dumb.. now I'm only dumb..

Quote:
The question is what's the point in the bulk system? It slows you down, and does other similar effects. What does this to you in RL? Weight. But of course if a weapon is too bad (that is less frags per 1 life of the user) for it's weight, less people would use it. So it should be less bulky. And if another is too good for its weight (many frags per 1 life), it should be bulkier to prevent everybody from always using that weapon.

Weight is not the only thing that slows you down - size does also matter in this situation. Imagine going through a CQB environment with a 1kg heavy replica of a M82A1 - you'll have an easier time doing the same with a MP5 or a M4 or a SIG551 - all of which weight significantly above 1kg. While I'm not saying balance isn't a issue, I stand by my statement that bulk represents mainly weight AND size - just check which weapons with similar weights have less bulk. FAMAS? SIG551? M4? Hk416? All come close to a M16 in terms of weight, but they all have less bulk - and none of these is so much "worse" than a M16 to have a need to balance them.

PS:
Quote:
[Master]Punisher
Laughing Laughing Laughing
When I need a new nick I'll know what to take..
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Kueltag



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: 2008-07-18 19:17:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snakeye wrote:
Weight is not the only thing that slows you down - size does also matter in this situation. Imagine going through a CQB environment with a 1kg heavy replica of a M82A1 - you'll have an easier time doing the same with a MP5 or a M4 or a SIG551 - all of which weight significantly above 1kg. While I'm not saying balance isn't a issue, I stand by my statement that bulk represents mainly weight AND size - just check which weapons with similar weights have less bulk. FAMAS? SIG551? M4? Hk416? All come close to a M16 in terms of weight, but they all have less bulk - and none of these is so much "worse" than a M16 to have a need to balance them.


I don't really get why size should modify bulk, there's weapon collision for that. The opposite example of yours: if you had a 20 kg piece of lead in your rucksack would its bulk be small just because it's small in size? No, it would slow you down as much as a 20 kg balloon. But indoors you would bump into the wall with the latter. Anyway, with MicroBulk and CustomBulk, you can make bulk mean whatever you want. Smile
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*Firebird*



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 245
Location: North-West-Germany

PostPosted: 2008-07-19 02:50:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kueltag wrote:
The XLS file will soon be ready, it'll have other info in it as well, like all the bulks in the smallest possible chart (1 page), RL masses and mass/bulk data, protrudings (how far the end of the weapon is when you hold it aimed, good info for indoor fights), damage (against 3A, 2, body, Khelm, head, monsters), recoils, loadout quantity limits, and names in the loadouts. All this for EVERYTHING that is in the game.

That sounds interesting! Smile
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Kueltag



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: 2008-07-19 13:18:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started a new topic for the XLS file!
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-07-19 13:29:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where? I can't find it...
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Kueltag



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: 2008-07-19 14:22:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, now it's there. Rolling Eyes
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Stinkmarder
[JgKdo]


Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 221
Location: Germany

PostPosted: 2008-07-19 15:39:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attached file is compiled with a array size of 80.
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Kueltag



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Budapest, Hungary

PostPosted: 2008-07-19 16:20:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh... Thanks.
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-07-20 16:29:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kueltag wrote:
I don't really get why size should modify bulk, there's weapon collision for that. The opposite example of yours: if you had a 20 kg piece of lead in your rucksack would its bulk be small just because it's small in size? No, it would slow you down as much as a 20 kg balloon. But indoors you would bump into the wall with the latter. Anyway, with MicroBulk and CustomBulk, you can make bulk mean whatever you want. Smile

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I actually don't even want to know how large a 20kg ballon is, but if you carry one (no matter if in your hands or on your back) I'd like to see you running and moving as if you'd be carrying a 20kg lead piece. Try it once and tell me the results Mr. Green
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