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M4 Mutators
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-10 18:01:25    Post subject: M4 Mutators Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I already claimed I'd try to make some fixes for Carpetsmokers M4A1improved mutator and I think I'm far enough to release a version which seems to work for me. The mutator is basically the same as Carpets except for the changed backup aiming position for the ACOG, which is a tad ugly I admit, but should work for everyone.

My main goal with this release is to get feedback wether ot not the most important bugs have been eliminated.

Also in a shameless attempt to ride the M4 wave I also put the second beta for my RO979 mutator in here. Since I also used the backup irons position in this one, the two are a bit like twins to me, so having one thread for both seems adequate.

Have fun and please report back any bugs/problems/recommendations you find. Carpet already made a few suggestions I plan to implement for a new version, so I guess this won't be the final release.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-10 18:24:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good, I'll test it (and the monster thing) and give feedback as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance for your effort.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-10 22:52:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, thanks to you both Snakeye and Carpetsmoker.


To the current

1) The position of the backup sight is perfect in my opinion.

2) The sound of the M203 is as it should be.

Critique to the current

3) I like the reduced recoil, but I think the "lose of control" feature (where weapons starts to sway uncontrollable) is way to hard (with most INF weapons actually). I saw a SEAL's docu and the one guy fired the remaining ~50 shots with his M60E4, it just moved back and forth, at the same time the rifle men practised suppressive fire with the M4 and it just shaked in their hands, the muzzle remained pointed at the direction they had it even after the 25th shot.
What I mean is, the lose control feature has to be minimized drastically, maybe have some effect, but do not really let one lose control totally.

Further suggestions (I just suggest away, it's up to you if you like it)

4) Tweaking the hipped positions would be a good thing I believe, you can try that (Z=-0.6) for Irons Sight, (Z=-0.4) for Reflex Sight, (Z=-0.75) for ACOG. Try it, maybe you like it. That also improves the reloading visually a bit.

5) Though for reloading I really would love to see a whole separate position (X=2.7 / Z=-1.7), which moves the weapon by code specificly when hitting the reload key to this position and back to the normal hipped position once the reload is completed.
It sounds rather complicated to do I guess, but experimenting doesn't hurt. You can try that by ignoring the wrong hipped position and just observing how it looks during the reloading animation.
Now combine point 4 with point 5 and you have some good stuff.

6) Set the M4 (aimed) iron sight to (X=-0.95), I bet you will like it. In my opinion MUCH better than the original. You can see what fits better in your opinion (maybe -0.9).

7) You talked about that the original 40mm (M16A2) is better with damage, but the M4 40mm has better ballistics (flies further). If the case can the both good aspects be combined so that you have powerful 40mm's that has better ballistics compared to the original?
I am not sure if you allready did this, or if it is the preferred option, that's why I'm more of asking for clarification here.


Good work.
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-11 12:54:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:
3) I like the reduced recoil, but I think the "lose of control" feature (where weapons starts to sway uncontrollable) is way to hard (with most INF weapons actually). I saw a SEAL's docu and the one guy fired the remaining ~50 shots with his M60E4, it just moved back and forth, at the same time the rifle men practised suppressive fire with the M4 and it just shaked in their hands, the muzzle remained pointed at the direction they had it even after the 25th shot.
What I mean is, the lose control feature has to be minimized drastically, maybe have some effect, but do not really let one lose control totally.


I'm not sure I completely understand - I've been able to emtpy a full 30rd mag with the M4 without straying too far from target, I never lost complete control. While I also do think the lose control (I've fired M249 and FAL easily up to that point) is not realistic, changing it for one weapon only will destroy balance - it would make the M4 the inverse of what it was before.

And NO, changing ALL weapons recoil is more than just a bit out of my current scope. I guess that's reserved for a project that does alter ALL weapons - though if such a project would emerge I might be willing to assist and do recoil changes - or any other scripting that doesn't exceed my abilities.

Psychomorph wrote:
4) Tweaking the hipped positions would be a good thing I believe, you can try that (Z=-0.6) for Irons Sight, (Z=-0.4) for Reflex Sight, (Z=-0.75) for ACOG. Try it, maybe you like it. That also improves the reloading visually a bit.

5) Though for reloading I really would love to see a whole separate position (X=2.7 / Z=-1.7), which moves the weapon by code specificly when hitting the reload key to this position and back to the normal hipped position once the reload is completed.
It sounds rather complicated to do I guess, but experimenting doesn't hurt. You can try that by ignoring the wrong hipped position and just observing how it looks during the reloading animation.
Now combine point 4 with point 5 and you have some good stuff.

6) Set the M4 (aimed) iron sight to (X=-0.95), I bet you will like it. In my opinion MUCH better than the original. You can see what fits better in your opinion (maybe -0.9).

Will check it and if it doesn't brake the Look&Feel of Inf too much I'll consider it.

Psychomorph wrote:
7) You talked about that the original 40mm (M16A2) is better with damage, but the M4 40mm has better ballistics (flies further). If the case can the both good aspects be combined so that you have powerful 40mm's that has better ballistics compared to the original?
I am not sure if you allready did this, or if it is the preferred option, that's why I'm more of asking for clarification here.

I'm not sure as to why this effect is present, since I only compared the INFMOD HEI and INF HE rounds atm - both are available for the RO979. If you aim a HEI and HE at the same spot the HEI will go further. IIRC INFMOD HE and HEI do have same trajectories (fire up a M16A4 to check..). The strange part is, that if I read the scripts correctly, Inf and INFMOD HE should use the same ballistics - so perhaps that's a weight question.

Anyway I'm still investigaing on this part, and if I find a way to set ballistics I'll probably go for the INFMOD ballistics, since the ladder sights should be "zeroed" for it.
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"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-19 22:35:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried the position values I suggested and I think the stuff is really cool.

I think the reloading looks better and the sights feel more realistic (M16 sights are X=-0.85).
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-20 05:36:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupp, the position looks nice - though it may take a while for me to get things together for the next release, since I didn't have too much free time to spend on mutating recently.

Anyway, the few activities I was able to pull concerned the 40mm nades - I'm pretty sure I found out what causes Infs 40mms to drop much steeper and was able to make one that has the same trajectory as the regular INFMOD 40mms. To my very surprise the difference is quite high - using a M4 with ladder sight on position 4 (400m?) the original Inf 40mm HE travels a tad more than "100m" on the long training range (I guess the distances aren't correct though), while the INFMOD 40mm makes it to the "200m" mark.

Since sources claim the M203s effective range to be at ~150m for point and 300m for area targets - maximum range at 400m - the question to be answered is, how far off the Inf shooting range actually is - I might make more tests this weekend, though not many since RL will get a bit in my way.

The second part I was able to do, is to make fire-mode client selectable by ini (this already does work server-selectable and offline for the RO979); would this be a feature you'd like to have for the M4 too, or does anyone use auto only anyway? The nade type selection is another story though - the code I thought might work actually made the M203 unusable (you see it but hitting attach key didn't do shit), which has been solved but still doesn't result in a client side selection of the nade type. Guess it'll take a bit more work..

Anyway, don't expect an update too soon, but I'm still working on it as time permits - and don't intend to stop Smile
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"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-23 17:03:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snakeye wrote:
Jupp, the position looks nice - though it may take a while for me to get things together for the next release, since I didn't have too much free time to spend on mutating recently.

At least you like it, that makes it at least possible to become reality anytimesoon. Wink

Snakeye wrote:
The second part I was able to do, is to make fire-mode client selectable by ini (this already does work server-selectable and offline for the RO979); would this be a feature you'd like to have for the M4 too, or does anyone use auto only anyway?

If it is not that difficult for you to make, why not? In my case I switched to auto the last times, because in CQB it is more effective. I used to use the original INF weapons earlier and these on semi, which in most cases have better (faster) semi auto triggering, but in case of the new weapons (which M4 is one of) I preferebly use auto in CQB, because semi triggering does not work that smooth with the new weapons.
That's my position.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-24 21:24:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Snakeye, what about this: The both mutators seem pretty good right now and hopefully usable online. From what I see redefining the aimed and hipped position (how I suggested, or similar to it) seems not to be a hard job and not a time consuming one (correct me if I ' wrong).
So, what about if you just make those hipped and aimed position changes and compile the both mutators with it and release it for online use? The other, more complicated things, like the extra reloading position and the further 40mm tweaks can be done in another release when you have enough time.

What you think?


I also tried to tweak the M16A2 aimed position just for fun, the attached picture shows the result, looks pretty good I think:
set INFc_M16M203 AimViewOffset (X=-2.6)

Regarding the M16A2 I have a question. As I discussed that with Stinkmarder and Carpetsmoker, I like the M16A2M203 and I love the 3rd person model of it (more than I ever could with the M16A4), but I hate that it always has the muzzle pointed up to much (to counter clipping hands). Stinkmarder said it will be difficult to correct, because to change the 3rd person you need to do it with every animation.
My question is; Is there a way to manipulate the 3rd person weapon positions for me through console commands like I can change the weapon positions in the 1st person? I would love to do that, so that you guys have less to do.


Last edited by Psychomorph on 2008-06-25 10:55:00; edited 1 time in total
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-24 21:32:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychomorph wrote:
Hey Snakeye, what about this: The both mutators seem pretty good right now and hopefully usable online. From what I see redefining the aimed and hipped position (how I suggested, or similar to it) seems not to be a hard job and not a time consuming one (correct me if I ' wrong).
So, what about if you just make those hipped and aimed position changes and compile the both mutators with it and release it for online use? The other, more complicated things, like the extra reloading position and the further 40mm tweaks can be done in another release when you have enough time.

What you think?


Well, XploD has both of them on his server for trial purpose since one or one and a half week or so - and so far they seem to run fine.

As for the changed positions, to be honest I did not yet investigate which ammount of work is involved since I wasted most of my time on getting into replication - well not wasted, since I found out what I needed to. Anyway this weekend should see me with a bit of spare time hopefully and I'll get on the changed positions first - don't know if I'll be able to complete work and testing on it though, but I'll try my best.
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"This is a quasi-pleasant day. Almost not bad. Almost not bad at all..." Jon, 04.03.2009
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-24 21:52:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, thanks. Maybe Carpetsmoker knows how to do it? If you don't want to waste time finding it out maybe you can ask him.
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-06-24 22:31:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can change the position variables at the start of "State Reload", and change them back at the end.
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-25 12:16:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, I played with the (old) M16 using the new aimed position (and textures of course Very Happy) and man, I can not do anything about it but I am still into the old INF guns, maybe on one hand because of nostaligia and this kind of feeling I have that reminds me on the old days, but on the other hand because the M16A2 still looks the sexiest in the 3rd person (with my textures Very Happy) and there are no arm position issues (still), yes sights are ugly, but the overall feel is as great as always.

I PMed Beppo asking if he knows how to change the 3rd person positions, for me, ingame, through console, if there is such a way at all (I hope).

So, you guys have to make a M16A2 fix anytime soon, with the new aim pos, highready for ACOG and hopefully the fixed m203 3rd person pos. Very Happy
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Snakeye



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 461
Location: Graz, Styria, Austria

PostPosted: 2008-06-27 14:46:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, apparently I'm either stupid or incompetent (..or both - thank's Captain obvious..). Which variable did you influence to change the view for reloading - either the ones I tried are the wrong ones or I'm doing it wrong - don't know which one to hope for. At least it would help if you told me the vars so I could at least rule out option 1.
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Carpetsmoker



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: 2008-06-27 15:01:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ones used to adjust the hip position, hmm, what's it called again...
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Psychomorph



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Europe

PostPosted: 2008-06-27 17:53:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to make it easier for you.


M4 aim (ironsight)
set INF_chM4A1 AimViewOffset (X=-0.95)

M16A4 aim (ironsight)
set INFc_M16A4 AimViewOffset (X=-0.85)

-----

M4 (M16A4) hipped carry (ironsight)
set INF_chM4A1 PlayerViewOffset (Z=-0.6)

M4 (M16A4) hipped carry (reflex sight)
set INF_M4A1RX PlayerViewOffset (Z=-0.4)

M4 hipped carry (ACOG)
set INF_M4A1ACOG PlayerViewOffset (Z=-0.75)

-----

M4 (M16A4) hipped reload
set INF_chM4A1 PlayerViewOffset (X=2.7)
set INF_chM4A1 PlayerViewOffset (Z=-1.7)

-----


Class names
INF_chM4A1-M203-ACOG-RX-sup-FL
(right combination to use: INF_chM4A1 for plain M4 with the carrying handle, INF_M4A1RXsupFL for reflex sight + suppressor + flash light, etc.)

INFc_M16A4... / INF_M16A4RX... / INF_chM16A4... ...M203-sup-LAM-SL
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